Pastor John Piper has ignited intense theological debate after releasing an episode of his podcast this week during which he responded to a seminary student named Scott who asked him about the role of women at seminaries.
“Dear Pastor John, I’m a seminary student at an orthodox but interdenominational school in the United States. I share your complementarian understanding of God’s design for male and female roles and relationships in the home and church,” Scott wrote. “On that basis, I have recently doubted whether or not my seminary ought to allow women to teach pastors in training. What do you think?”
He went on to question whether seminaries should hire female professors, with Piper responding that he bases his response on the belief that the Bible “teaches that churches should be led by a team of spiritual, humble, biblically qualified men.” He cited 1 Timothy 2:12, which reads, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet” (NIV). This verse has, of course, been hotly debated.
Thinking through gender tensions in pastoral mentorship. It’s always about more than competence. https://t.co/o9tz4y5uzp
— John Piper (@JohnPiper) January 22, 2018
Piper drew a distinction, though, and noted that the question at hand isn’t about women attending seminary and is, instead, about whether they should be in a position of training men for a role that many believe is solely designed for males. Piper said:
Namely, seminary is not just the transfer of information. Machines can do that. But machines can’t form a man for the pastoral role by being those who, in their teaching, embody that role and model that role and inspire for that role through their active involvement as elder-qualified men in the church.
That’s my belief about what makes for the best seminary teaching. When a student with the pastoral call arrives at the level of seminary preparation, something is different from what was happening in college education and high school education (at least, usually it is). Not only has he moved beyond the adolescent years of transition from boyhood to manhood, but he is now submitting himself to a community of teachers who, by their precept and example, are called to shape his mind and his heart for vocational pastoral ministry.
Piper, through the lens of the precept that some evangelicals embrace that women are not meant to take on pastoral roles, then pointed to an inconsistency that he said can sometimes develop amid this debate.
“If it is unbiblical to have women as pastors, how can it be biblical to have women who function in formal teaching and mentoring capacities to train and fit pastors for the very calling from which the mentors themselves are excluded? I don’t think that works,” he said. “The issue is always that inconsistency. If you strive to carve up teaching in such a way that it’s suitable for women, it ceases to be suitable as seminary teaching.”
Not everyone was on board with this mentality, though, with worship leader Kaitlin Curtice pushing back fervently on Twitter:
So why are we surprised?
This interview reminds me of one of the pastors of my childhood, a man I dearly love but who would never value me as a leader.— Kaitlin B Curtice (@KaitlinCurtice) January 22, 2018
Others — including well-known Christian leader Beth Moore — jumped into the mix.
“The overreach makes me want to pull my hair out. Our voices have no value to a seminarian? None? Zero?? Nothing we can speak into?” Moore Tweeted. “Across the board? Not even how to treat more than 1/2 your congregations? No wonder we have to beg to be valued & heard by our brothers!”
Here’s her tweet along with a few others:
Thank you. The overreach makes me want to pull my hair out. Our voices have no value to a seminarian? None? Zero?? Nothing we can speak into? Across the board? Not even how to treat more than 1/2 your congregations? No wonder we have to beg to be valued & heard by our brothers!
— Beth Moore (@BethMooreLPM) January 24, 2018
Arguing against female professors because seminaries exist to train pastors isn’t totally true. Seminaries also train worship leaders, biblical counselors, missionaries—the degree possibilities reveal it’s not just for ordained men.
— J.A. Medders (@mrmedders) January 24, 2018
Totally. With that narrow & tailored criteria, I understand his point. But that’s not how a lot of seminaries function, they train more than pastors. That’s what I’m addressing. More basic and general, it’s not wrong for women to be Seminary profs—which is what people are hearing
— J.A. Medders (@mrmedders) January 25, 2018
If only you understood that all this time men have been debating whether women should teach or lead, we’ve been teaching and leading anyway.
There is nothing more gospel than that.— Kaitlin B Curtice (@KaitlinCurtice) January 23, 2018
Some tried to further explain Piper’s intent, though:
First, Piper reframes the generic question (Should women be hired as seminary professors) in a very precise and particular way. He has a particular view of the *aim* of seminary, the *content & trajectory* of seminary courses, & the *method* of seminary training. 2/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
First, the aim of seminary is to train vocational pastors. That’s a more restricted aim than what many seminaries do today. But that’s how he reframes the question. 3/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
Second, given this aim, everything in the program is studied with a view to how it may edify the church *through the pastor’s role in the ministry of the church.” In other words, the courses in the program all have a practical, vocational trajectory toward pastoral ministry. 4/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
Third, given the aim of such a seminary and the course of study for such a seminary, the best pedagogical method for such a seminary is through modeling, mentoring, and teaching for the pastoral office by professors who are qualified to fill that office. 5/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
Specifically, profs should be actively involved as elder-qualified men in a church. This comes close to requiring that seminary profs actually *be* elders w/o actually requiring it (thus allowing for profs whose life situation precludes serving as an elder at any given time). 6/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
To summarize, Piper reframes the question very precisely: given a seminary whose aim is to train vocational pastors by orienting each subject to pastoral ministry through a teacher who can embody the pastoral role, should women be hired as seminary professors? 7/
— Joe Rigney (@joe_rigney) January 24, 2018
It’s likely that this debate won’t be over anytime soon. As Faithwire previously reported, a Barna Group poll released last year found that the vast majority of Americans — 79 percent — are comfortable with female priests or pastors. But among evangelicals, who tend to have what the Barna Group called “a more traditional interpretation of the scriptures,” just 39 percent expressed comfortability with female preachers.
Another somewhat shocking result is that 80 percent of Catholics are comfortable with female priests and pastors, a proportion that is higher than the 74 percent of Protestants who said the same; the Catholic Church does not allow female priests.
Additionally, 62 percent of “practicing Christians” support female pastors and priests, with majorities of women (84 percent) and men (75 percent) agreeing. Despite this widespread support, though, Barna found that there’s actually quite a small percentage — 9 percent — of senior pastors currently in the pulpit who are female. Read more about all that here.
Here’s a great conversation on the topic from The Village Church in Texas, who recently sought to clarify their stance on the issue:
https://www.facebook.com/TheVillageChurch/videos/10155288882577833/
(H/T: Christian Post)